Hey Rain, I think you better get God on line one for a judgment call on this one

This is part 3 of a series in my response to the self-righteous, hypocritical sanctimony of a few people who think they have the calling to put thoughts into someone else's head and then disavow their handiwork.

Part 1 "Beyond Your Control: An Exit Interview

Part 2 I found precisely which straw broke the camel's back, and the camel hasn't got a clue

Audio is available of my version of therapy on youtube at



Now, having said that, let's go through a little history:

Here's the comment that earned me my first "suspension" at Street Prophets; and here's Rain's explanation of why:

• snafubar, (3+ / 0-) (recommended by Sister Quarterstaff of Undeclared Grace, Maureen, ladybug )


The not-so-implied threat of suicide here is unacceptable.  I asked loggersbrat to call you last night to check on you.  She did and, thankfully, you were okay.  However, using suicide threats as a rhetorical tool is not okay.  Ever.
Nor is not acceptable to attack another member the way you did JCH.  His very presence seems to set off violent emotion in you.  I went back to the thread where you attacked him and he did not do what you accused him of doing – he was simply replying to a comment of Ojibwa’s, not to you.  
The front pagers have discussed the situation.  This is what we are going to do.
You will be able to read but not post for the period of two weeks – a “time out”.  Then, your posting privileges will be restored but you will be on probation.  After that point, a personal attack on another member will result in banning.  Another suicide threat will result in banning and a call to the police in your area for help for you.

We will write to JCH and speak to him about refraining from pushing buttons.  We will also ask him to stay away from any diary you may write in future.

by Rain on Sun Nov 29, 2009 at 08:07:09 PM PST

Pasted from <http://www.streetprophets.com/comments/2009/11/25/164625/67/98>

Now, first of all, you got any judge to throw your case out of his court. If it was rhetorical, then you had no reason to call the cops because rhetorical means it was not serious. If it was serious, then who are you to accuse me of using suicide as a rhetorical "tool"? You wouldn't last five minutes in a courtroom before the judge threw you out for contempt. Marie Antoinette said, "let them eat cake", but Rain wants her cake and she's gonna eat it, too.

Now buckle your fucking seat belt sweetheart, because this is gonna suck if you have any vestige of hoping you were truly objective in what was happening.

That was November 29. The conflict and condescension dumped on me by John Howard, JCHFleetguy, (and there is a shitload more of it if you really have the time; I do) had been going on since at least June and you had been involved personally already once.

So I thought you ought to read the day that I decided that I wasn't taking Mr Fleetguy's attitude any longer that he was a good Christian and I was something else .

You blame me for bringing up suicide?

This mother fucker had already told me that having such thoughts was what he expected of me. And you didn't see it, or if you had, you didn't say a word about it. If that "Judge not lest ye be judged" verse is important, somebody's screwed.

I was serious about sitting down. Here is the sanctimonious prick on September 29, and you didn't have a problem with this discussion of suicide:

(note: this is JCH standard response to anyone who mentions "more people have been killed in the name of God than for any other purpose", which I will take on in future installments.)

A few points (0 / 0)



It is interesting that people want to count bodies until the body count doesn't favor them. Frankly, I think you bought into a generally believed urban legend about faith causing more wars than anything else, and now simply do not want to say that should have been debunked in Snopes. So be it.

People have found lots of reasons to kill each other for a long time. I can take my share of credit for that - just about 7% of the credit.

. . . faith - blind or otherwise, and regardless of what dogma the faith is based on - deserves to take it's share of causing misery in the history of mankind than any misery caused by people lacking faith.

No one really lacks faith - unless you are using it synomously with religion (i.e. Catholic faith, Muslim faith, etc). Faith is not an organized thing, faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see.

All human beings who are not suicidal or otherwise terminally pessimistic share that – but faith has an object.

Before that though, let us make sure we understand the word "hope". This is not "I hope I get a pony for Christmas" - this is confident expectation.

Everyone exercises faith in "something" (and indeed many things) nearly every day. Therefore, faith is a meaningless word unless you attach the "object of the faith" to the faith itself. It is "faith in [fill in the blank]' that you have to discuss. So, now this paragraph

If I follow your argument, you seem to indeed be claiming that without faith in something - anything, even if the things that one has faith in are competing amongst each other for supremacy - is always and unconditionally preferable to having no faith at all.
So, since you say "something, anything" I would say yes - although actually I would say it is just flat unavoidable. People who absolutely could not exercise faith in anything probably would be suicide victims. We cannot operate without "having a confident expectation of the results of things which we cannot see". Period.

So, if you want to discuss what your faith is "in" (or the many things) and I want to discuss what my faith is "in" (or the many things) - then we can start to have a rational discussion.

However, back to violence. Since science doesn't deal in absolutes but really in percentages and odds - the odds of being killed in the 20th century by someone exercising something coming out of their faith in God is far far less than you being killed by their faith in something else . Indeed, the odds of you being killed in the United States tomorrow by someone acting out of their faith in God is far far less than your chance of being killed by someone acting out of faith in something else.


To find out about me: http://braincrampsforgod.blogspot.com/2009/09/about-me.html

by JCHFleetguy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 06:43:35 PM PST

[ Parent ]

OK, I gotta go. This is way too close to home (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:JCHFleetguy, linkage


People who absolutely could not exercise faith in anything probably would be suicide victims.

Well, now we've found agreement.
But they aren't victims until they go through with it, and that's where the fun stops.
If you have real courage to see me frothing at the mouth and throwing heavy objects, and crying - but nevertheless being unflinchingly honest in the thoughts I have on the subject -

then I'll explain that to you.

I know I have to go unwind for a while because I realize you must not have any way to know what that might imply.
The condescension is showing when I read

"then we can start to have a rational discussion", which implies that the one we're having now is not rational, and I'm pretty sure you're not admitting any culpability in that.

Peace.

SNAFUBAR: I know things will always be FU from time to time, what I'm working on is that we stop being so damn comfortable with it as "Situation Normal"

by snafubar on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 07:59:14 PM PST

And in his typical passive-aggressive way, the motherfucker (and when I use the word, I want him to see his mother crying and begging him to get up off of her) had the balls to recommend the comment.

I'm going to put up a whole new diary about how John C Howard sumarrily re-wrote the rules on what a "cookie" and a "troll" was for, and what life would be like if he decided to be that unilaterally arrogant about the colors Red, Green and Yellow when displayed by a traffic light. But for now, here's an analogy for the hubris and wisdom of using something in a completely different manner than everyone else is using it: (George Carlin made a lot more sense to me than Jesus on so many levels)



But beyond his arrogance, what is more sickening is his indifference. This heartless - and yes, Rain, soulless bastard, would stand eye to eye to me while I had a nine millimeter Beretta held to my temple with a full clip and keep telling me I had faith while the tears ran down my face and I cried for him to shut the fuck up.

ANd you didn't say jack shit to him, but you threw me out for what?

Because you're all too afraid to admit you're no better than me.

And that's how you sleep at night.

Now I know why people say "sweet dreams" - because only in a dream could you believe this shit made any sense and that God loves you for it .

You can kick me out of Street Prophets - but I promise you that if you pick up the phone and try to get anyone involved in my personal affairs like you have threatened to do, you had better be goddamned sure you have a good lawyer and a lot of fucking money, because I'd love to retire and live fat and happy for the rest of my days after you lose your shirt in court trying to explain why and how you think you care if I live or die.

You care about your own liability, not one god damned fucking ounce about who I am, or how I feel, or if I live or die.

ANd that's why I don't need God to help me sleep at night.

Let me know what he says about your blessed objectivity. I am sincerely curious to see how this one plays out.

I'm going to keep going on this - there's a lot more of Mr Fleetguy's sanctimonious hypocritical condescension. You gave me shit because the "rules are very clear" about being a jerk and a hater. You seem to have exceptionaly acute radar for what you think is hate, but you're blind and in the fog on what a jerk looks and sounds like.

And so it goes, Rain.

I'm sure you'll find a way to see how God will forgive you.

I don't see a God, all I see is you. So if you want any such thing on this temporal Earth, it has to come from me and I'm - as of now - a long way from thinking you have earned it.

And stop with the vigil already - you made your choices. Have the courage to stand up to them without feeling sorry about it when you clearly don't give a flip-happy-flying-underhand-fuck if people live or die.